Noodad - Latest Comments in noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Alethia — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 02:15:33 -0000

Erm... didn\\\'t read all of this, too long. But I noticed that a lot of people are bringing up the fact that if you post a vid of a child on YouTube, \\\"some sicko\\\" or even \\\"sicko\\\'s\\\" will be jacking off to it somewhere.

Why is this a problem? I don\\\'t say that it\\\'s not disgusting. I don\\\'t say those people don\\\'t need help. But there are many, many vids of kids on YouTube, and most of them are a joy to see. I don\\\'t see why the thought that some pervert is watching the vids should interrupt my innocent pleasure at seeing vids of kids, or stop parents from posting vids of their kids.

(I do, however, agree that each parent should be allowed to control the videos of their own children, so don\\\'t go posting vids of other parents\\\' kids.)

I could MAYBE see that there is some danger of having a perv target a particular child in part due to or through the use of YouTube vids. But I don\\\'t think the risk of that is much greater than the risk of some perv grabbing them on a whim. If you take appropriate precautions with your children, the risk of both is pretty low. Furthermore, ideally it would be difficult for someone to connect a YouTube vid with the pinpointed location of an actual child; parents should take some precautions to avoid letting personal info slip, especially that of location. So don\\\'t put up vids of your kids with notes about \\\"This was in XYZ Dance Academy in Myton, Nebraska last Saturday\\\" etc.

But as far as that mysterious guy out there who\\\'s getting off on the vids of my kids? Even if I had kids and had posted their vids on YouTube, the possibility - even the likelihood - wouldn\\\'t bother me.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

VidPro — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 00:45:46 -0000

To Noodad, I\'d be happy to, I am located in Central New Jersey. If you are in N.Y., N.Y. , Eastern, PA. or N.J. I will do just that. Let me know where you are and if it\'s feasible too

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Shannon — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:20:32 -0000

I work for a great video company. We do recitals and only recitals and dance. I write this as an informative response to hopefully shed a little light on the points touched upon in the initial article as well as the responses.

1) Many dance studios work all year teaching children an art that they, themselves love. They put their hearts and very long hours into teaching and preparing for the show. It would be proposterous to expect them to cover all the costs of having your children perform for you (demonstrate what they have learned, gain confidence, stage presence,and of course know that you are proud of them, etc). The cost of the costumes, the theatre rental, the high insurance rates, scenery, backdrop, programs, staff and the list goes on. And yet people will complain about having to pay to see their own child, not realizing that the alternative is a non-relative spending all their hard-earned money so you can see your child. I just feel that deserves some attention. Now, after all that work and the bonds they form with these wonderful children, they would like a record of that as well as of their choreography and the show as a whole. They do their best to hire someone they feel will deliver that professionally.

2) Many people who are hired to film a recital, do not understand the unique animal that it is. Shooting a dance performance is very different than shooting a wedding....and most of these videographers ARE wedding videographers! When the video is bad, not only do you suffer, but so do the studio directors.

3) It is true that you can buy a DVD in the store of a hit movie and only pay $20. Here are some things to consider though, and this applies to the professional companies who specialize in dance and do provide an excellent recording of the performance. (I will explain how in point 4)
First, you have the initial investment. Our company (everything is geared for specific needs of dance) has invested 50-60 thousand dollars to deliver top quality videotaping and editing and that is bare minimum if you truly want an excellent product. If you wanted to air it, add another 100-150 thousand in appropriate equipment. Next, you have the initial contacting and contracting of the studios, the paperwork, the prep. You have the loading time, the driving time and expense, the set-up and breakdown, and the 1, 2, sometimes 3 days actually there shooting, sometimes all day. You have the tape, batteries, order forms, pens, media, etc (all the things that have to be replaced each show). You then have the editing time (minimum 1 full day per show, more if you are typing 30 dances of credits, each with 1-50 names in them, titles over each dance and menus for every dance. The you have duplication, tape/DVD stock, labels, cases. There is delivery, by mail or in person, again with time, driving expense, etc. I still have not figured in wear-and-tear, as this equipment will one day break down or become out-dated and have to be replaced. Now $30 is a great price. We charge $40, but most companies charge $50 (professional or not). Figure an average of 200 dancers in an average show, an average size school. With a reputable video and trusted customers, you will sell approximately 30-50%. You can expect to spend, in time alone, an all-inclusive 2-3 weeks on any one school, from initial contact to delivery. So my question is...how much would you charge? Honestly...

4)I have two parts to this point. The first is why parents are not allowed to tape anymore, reasons you may or may not be aware of. Beginning with the most trivial (for lack of a more respectful word), many studios have had problems with fights breaking out, because people will get very emotional when their children are involved. If parent \\\"A\\\" is blocking parent \\\"B\\\" with that camera, and parent \\\"A\\\" does not want to lose that prime real estate, parent \\\"B\\\" is not a happy parent. This is just one obvious example. There have been numerous outbreaks over the years. Secondly, it has proven annoying in more than one instance and the directors want everyone to be comfortable and enjoy the show. Third, many people do actually want at least one live glimpse at their child and do not want to view their 3 minutes of fame through a viewfinder or 3\\\" LCD screen. Now to the more serious reasons. Choreography: this does belong to the choreographer and it has been stolen by those not belonging to the studio. Pedofiles: There have been people taping recitals who did not have children in the show, nor did they know any children in the show. I\\\'m sure they beat you to the Japanese market. This is a serious crime that you would not want attached to your own child in any way, yet it happens all the time...scary, but true. It is in large part, the condition of the world we live in that has brought us to this point. And going out of your way to break the rules and encourage others to do the same, is never the answer. That can only make it worse. Privacy: many videos have ended up on YouTube, making fun of a child who does not deserve that horribly impactful prank. Feasibility: there are companies who deliver a very professional job, that even the biggest Spielberg-Dad would be happy with. They do incur a massive amount of costs as evidenced in the earlier breakdown. People videotaping lowers sales, which does not allow us to continue to provide the same product. In fact, if everyone ordered a DVD, in most cases we actually lower our price. If you can get us a million sales (as in the store-bought DVD example you mentioned), I will personally videotape your child\\\'s studio and sell you a DVD for 25 cents. A million makes a big difference.
The second part of my point is the fact that any company who realizes the needs of dance, can provide a professional DVD. We offer a video that allows you to see you child (and clearly) for the entire time they are on stage, as well as the option for you to see their close-ups also. We do have an animated icon for each individual dance. We have a themed intro, titles, etc. We give you a DVD, as themed, packaged, recollection of that child\\\'s year in dance...and it will last their lifetime.

5) To the studios who pay $3000, or $6000 for their shows to be taped...you do not need to. There are companies who will make their money by making the video available to the parents and also provide you with complimentary copies for your studio. To the studios who wait 3 or more months to receive your videos, you do not have to. These things do take time, but not that much time. Delivery should be expected in 2-10 weeks, many factors determining which (number of shows you put on, how much special editing you want, titles, credits, etc). To all the studios receiving sub-standard videos, you do not have to. While there are things that are out of the videographer\\\'s control (your lighting, ambient audio, choreography and positioning of the children, available position for the camera equipment, etc) you can usually tell what is unavoidable and what is not. You can receive a professional recording of your performance.

6) As a main concern I noticed was your response to the price of $30. If after the breakdown above, you still somehow feel the price is inflated, think about anything else you buy. Find out what it actually cost to make the shirt you are wearing. Or the car you drive. Or to build the house you live in. While there are many costs involved, the people selling you these products have invested a certain amount of time and a certain degree of skill and are entitled to a profit. If they only covered their costs, they would be producing those videos from a cardboard box. I\\\'m sure you can find additional examples even in your own line of work.

7) Lastly, the people videotaping recitals....or anything or job for that matter...should care. Because it shows. It makes more difference than skill, or talent, or equipment. Some companies work for the money...and that is all they will ever make. Some people actually work because they love what they do and the reasons they do it for...and they make memories, they make valued long-standing clients and friends, and they sometimes even make a difference. We get compliments all the time, not to be immodest. It is the best reward to know that someone loved the video and to know that one day they will have that to look back on, as I do of my own recital or even home movies. They are priceless and the first thing people try to save from a fire after family and pets.
I am sorry you have had such bad experiences, but please understand it is not always the case and when you find the right company, it is beneficial for eveyone involved and hardly \\\"gang-rape.\\\" I would never hold an occupation that could be classified, on any level, as such. I sincerely hope your studio finds a company you will all be happy with.
Best of luck and I hope this has helped create a more level view.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Noodad — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:49:26 -0000

Thanks Provid. Your operation seems to be a way better product that the one my studio chose. Split screen action is a great solution which my video did not have. Also for the time to edit, add titles, master, and duplicate, the one I received had no titles, had no editing. It was one track, started at the beginning and stopped at the end.

Had no chapter headers, had no home menu, just set to autoplay. And in my case, we were not allowed to tape the dress rehearsal. Any chance you can send me your info so i can pass it along to my studio owner? email me at supernoo@noodad.com

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Provid — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:16:25 -0000

First off....do you know there are night vision cameras that make light color costumes invivible !!!! Yes and I\'ve caught someone doing just that. Most companies are insured and in our case bonded. We not only provide the service but we care about kids too. I\'ve seen youtube videos....costume malfunctions, close ups on the wrong part of the body, making fun of kids that dance bad.....yea....put your kid on there.
For our \"Video business\" we shoot close-ups as well as whole stage shots at the same time using split screens. Our business has grown every year. Yes there are a few \"dads\" that think they could shoot just as well with limited focus and a non steady shot....is that the memory you want. maybe you had a bad company but don\'t ruin it for the rest of us. Why do you think we do weddings, bar mitzvahs etc.......people want a professional job. And aren\'t we entitled to earn a living too ? Would you take your car to the mechanic and use his garage and tools. Would you take your food to a restaurant and cook it there ? Yes we give money to the dance school as a donation. These people work on very little money when you actually see their overhead. The work they do for your kids is amazing. Late arrivals, temper tantrums and bickering ( and that\'s just from the moms.) No ones forcing you to buy anything, but if you\'re too cheap to purchase a video don\'t bitch. A lot of people appreciate the work we do. And lastly it\'s a shame you had to wait so long ( sarcastically ) It takes time to edit, add titles, master, duplicate and deliver these DVD\'s and tapes. We do over 75 shows in June and deliver over 7,000 orders. Yes it does take time. Most video companies run a demo in the lobby ( we do ) showing the dance you just viewed. If you don\'t like it....don\'t buy it. Most studios let you tape the dress rehersal. Go to it and tape what you need, but don\'t comprimise what we do.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

KC — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:40:13 -0000

\"I have a strong suspicion that you will be asked to bring your daughter to another studio\" and \"your child would not be welcomed back to my school\"!

As far as I\'m concerned, all the anonymous \"owners\" who won\'t identify their own business or website while trash talking at noodad are hoping nobody figures out where they are so Google won\'t connect the dots for future clients.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Sue — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:38:02 -0000

[comment deleted by foodad.... moved to its own article]

http://www.noodad.com/cms/instructions/afterbir...

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

The Judge Judy of Dance... — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:48:59 -0000

Yes everyone it is I the Judge. I have held back posting because .. Oh I ws busy teaching, working at my business . The place I make a profit at. Geesh!

NOODAD, in my opinion you come off as a pompus ass who is a real cheap skate to boot. I feel as though you view our business as \"frivilous\" because we are mainly run by woman. I get that you don\'t like woman very much. Sorry, just what I sense from your posts.

If in fact the problem you are having is with the video company, don\'t call it a scam, CALL THE COMPANY! Wow that was hard. Oh I guess that is your wife\'s job right? If you call them and complain engouh they may just refund your money and then you can give back your DVD, of course after you have made a copy already. But you won\'t call the Video company because alas it is most likely run by a man!

I won\'t waste my time informing you of all of the time and lack of money that goes along with this job. My dear friends above me have done a good job of that. But I will tell you that as far as I am concerned your child would not be welcomed back to my school. The classes would be full FOR EVER. I do not need to have such ignorant people in my life and in my business. My mission is to involve children in a positive envirnment to learn passion for the art of dance . I would not accept your money if you were the last student on earth. Too bad for your daughter though. She looks like a cute kid and definately deserves a better parent than you.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Sue — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:26:12 -0000

OK Noodad, its a deal, but make sure whatever I e mail you gets run by your wife first, ok?

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

SO's Boyfriend — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:46:50 -0000

If you hadn\'t pissed my girlfriend off I wouldn\'t be saying anything, but yes it is my place because I am a male and I completely understand what these women go through. Maybe you should try taking a walk in their shoes. 8)

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Beth Wheeler — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:59:06 -0000

Good on you foodad - there may be hope for you boys yet ;o}
B.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

foodad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:57:31 -0000

Beth,

Joking and one-upsmanship aside, please see my previous response to Sue. I will be happy to post an article that educates noodads on the finer points of the business as well as how to select a studio.

We would greatly appreciate it and maybe it can be a collaboration between you and your dance.net \"team\".

Thanks for coming to noodad.com and thanks for your continued participation.

foodad

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

foodad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:52:31 -0000

Sue,

Welcome to noodad.com, the place where we help dads fumble through fatherhood.

I would like to take this opportunity to take you up on your offer. If you would like to put together an article that you think would be helpful for educating noodads like us on choosing a dance studio, we would publish it on the site, and then link to it from this article so as to present your point of view on this topic.

BTW - the article you read above is a pretty typical conversation in noodad-ese. We dads start by simply expressing dissatisfaction, \'overreact\' to the problem, take examples to extremes and then joke absurdly or rudely about the topic. What can we say? We\'re men. Please help. :zzz You can find our email addresses on the about page of the site.

At the end of the day, we succeeded in our aim of presenting a topic, getting feedback and giving perspective to our vast, worldwide noodad readership.

We would love to have you participate.

foodad

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Beth Wheeler — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:40:10 -0000

Dear Foodad,
While you sort out the metaphors, you may be happy to hear I\\\'ll be leaving you to your man show. I really have no desire to be a part of insult hurling or one upping. I was sincerely looking to offer your readers and the original poster insight into how our business works so that you might have a better appreciation for all of the effort we put in daily to keep costs down and quality up.

Even though you expressed that you were \\\"surprised at the attitudes\\\" the dance teachers were sharing as you felt \\\"here is an opportunity to educate a disgruntled customer (and the his hundreds of thousands of loyal, daily noodad readers)\\\" you don\\\'t seem to be choosing to take the opportunity to use the information we have offered to educate yourself. Instead you continue to hurl insults.

I\\\'m sad, and only wish I\\\'d had you in our studio when you were younger so that I could have had the opportunity to teach you grace of spirit - and perhaps a bit of respect.

Good luck with that,
Beth Wheeler
www.adancersdream.net

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Sue — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:33:22 -0000

Guilty as charged.I totally admit getting completely worked up after reading Noodads post in his blog and I rallied up the troops....name calling and the whole enchilada. So to be sure I practice as I preach, for using the phrase \"tell off\" instead of \"enlighten\" you have my sincerest apologies.
But when I read:
\"it is sort of a rip off \" and
\"here is where we get to the gang raping part.\" it most definitely upset me and obviously every other studio owner who read it.
I see your gripe about the quality of the video. But to be quite honest with you if your studio owner reads your post I have a strong suspicion that you will be asked to bring your daughter to another studio.

You not only (and maybe rightfully so) attacked the videographer, but you really made the whole dance school experience sound like a big scam....like we are staying awake at night figuring how to squeeze every last penny out of the poor unsuspecting parents who walk through our doors.
You know you sounded that way. You are obviously an intelligent guy.....so I KNOW you know you sounded that way.I have a compromise....how about we help you out with something really helpful to new Dads...like what to look for when choosing a dance studio for your child. Maybe then we can put this to rest.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

nine inch dad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:21:37 -0000

Suzanne,

Thanks for vigilantly protecting the children who have been entrusted to you.

I do not think that our ignorana-moose pal, Noodad, questions the safety of his kid at his local studio.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

another studio owner — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:16:21 -0000

I understand your gripes about the video, and you should take that up with the studio owner and the videographer.

You are seriously ignorant about what it takes to run a dance studio. You can see you hit a nerve here. It is because people seem to take offense if we make a profit, because children are involved. It is a business, and yes, we need to make money. We shouldn\'t be ashamed to make money. I know very few studio owners who are raking in the dough. Most of us barely scrape by, despite what people think.

You are getting such a strong reaction because this is a huge issue for us. We get defensive. (can you tell? :) ) but it\'s frustrating when people think our jobs are just fun and games, and we are all rich. It costs a fortune to put on a recital and we make very little, if any profit on the stupid video.

You should talk to your Studio owner if you don\'t like the policies. Most uf us do allow people to video during dress rehearsal. Are you happy with all the other things? Isn\'t this kind of small and petty if you do? You say your daughter is happy, isn\'t that what matters?

I realize that you probably just didn\'t know any better, so I am not furious with you. You just needed to be informed, because obviously you didn\'t have a clue. Most parents don\'t and it is the responsibility of the Studio owner to educate them. I have a FAQ notice about why we have to sell tickets, why no flash photography or videos. I\'m sure I have people who are still pissed off about it, but that\'s my policy, stated up front and center when they register.

Just wanted to let you know why they all got so upset. It isn\'t just videos. Parents seem to get soooo mad if we make a profit on anything. It is a business.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

foodad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:31:46 -0000

>>>And just one more thing...you might be paying, but you\'re not the customer...you\'re child is.

Are you serious? My kid is the customer!?

The customer is the person who made the decision and ultimately purchased a good or service. My daughter would not be the customer, she would be a consumer (in software terms a user). The customer is the person you need to satisfy in order to make certain that they repeat the business. The customer IS indeed the person who paid. You may want to butt-out of an area you clearly do not understand. Leave the business to your girlfriend.

Also, do not get all high-and-mighty on spelling with us. Otherwise I shall have to give you a 30 minute dissertation on the difference between \"your\" and \"you\'re\", as well as the irony of you misspelling \"misspelled\".

We type fast. We do not have fancy editors. We have day jobs. You still get the point.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

JSKOKF — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:18:48 -0000

Hi Guys. What did i miss?

Jeez. Guess you really hit a nerve this time, huh Noodad? Was i the only one that got the selling DVDs in China line to be sarcasm?

P.S. When I showed my wife this thread she asked, \"When did Noodad turn into a chick website?\" ROFL

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

foodad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:09:15 -0000

Beth,

You have not offended me in the least. I am the co-founder of a site that tries to combine aspects of \"The Man Show\" and \"babycenter.com\". (I am perplexed that you do not seem to know the difference between the brake of an automobile and the clutch, but I understand what you are getting at.)

My site is a forum for everyone to discuss what it means to be a dad and how to get through it without f$*#ing up too much.

That said, our site does not profess to know it all. We do not have a slick motto like \"Making noodads into pro-dads one dad at a time\". Ours is \"We\'re here for ya man!\" And if one of us is tweaked about something, usually the other has had a similar experience and we take that to the site where we are often corrected, or in this case, slapped around by professionals who do not share our viewpoints.

Thanks for participating in the site and please learn the difference between the pedal in the middle and the far left one before driving again.

foodad

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

SO's Boyfriend — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 05:36:33 -0000

Foodad - Noodad is a reactive penny pincher that doesn\'t understand safety or production costs. He shouldn\'t be allowed to buy videos if he is going to let random people in China buy it for $5. Ask yourself this question: What reason would anyone have to buy a dvd of a bunch of 4 - 14 year olds dancing in little costumes that they don\'t know? That\'s just not right. And you think this is just one big lambaste? How would you feel if someone came at you like this about a business you were running, saying you were \"raping\" them? And just one more thing...you might be paying, but you\'re not the customer...you\'re child is.
Besides, if you\'re always right, why don\'t you teach your kid how to dance. Apparently you always know best.

Noodad - This isn\'t a sports team, and the only reason you are using some of the vocabulary that you use (as mis-spelled as it is), is because you can. If it was your son and you were talking to his coach like this, he would beat you or kick your son off the team. Grow up and start respecting the women that devote themselves to educating your children. Would you ever talk to their school teachers like this? Do you think that all the fun-raising, field trips, etc. that you have to pay for are a sham? No, because it\'s for education. And yet you forget that you already pay the school systems via outrageous taxes anyway. Well, dance is education, too. And studies show that kids who are involved in the arts are more likely to be successful, so you aren\'t just paying for a dance class, you\'re paying for your kids life.

You listed many reasons that you thought you got ripped off by paying $30 dollars for a disk: so direct it to the video production company. The studio may have put on the show, but the videographers are contracted. All those things you mentioned about the price, the set-up on the disk, and warnings of copyright infringement are not dictated by the studio, but by the contractors. Let your studio know you are displeased, and maybe they\'ll find someone else next time, but don\'t take it out on them. And just know that if it has everything that you want, you\'re likely to pay closer to $50 a disk. When I was in marching band, VHS copies of the competitions were $50...DVD\'s were $65. So yeah, you can go get your double disk for $20 at wal-mart, but which has the better value? What is going to bring a smile to your face and tears of joy everytime you watch it? Are you going to play clips from that double-disk at your daughters wedding because you were too cheap to buy one $30 dvd a year? News bro...it just get\'s more expensive as she gets older, so get used to it. Oh, and that broken nose that your daughter has? Thank your camera for that as the flash blinded her when you took that last snapshot...so go ahead and sneak that camera in.

Sincerely,

SO\'s Boyfriend

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Suzanne — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 05:07:09 -0000

I don\\\'t allow parents to videotape dress rehearsals, I don\\\'t allow anyone. I have several reasons. I used to but a mom of a student\\\'s friend came and videotaped (supposedly for the kid) and 2 complete numbers were stolen and seen performed during the halftime show by the dance team of the next city\\\'s school! That\\\'s stealing.

It is my responsibility to keep the kids safe so I go out of my way to make sure of this. There have been a few attempted \\\"takings\\\" of kids - a dad who didn\\\'t have custody, by a \\\"predator\\\", I know of a few and I know this has happened at other types of kids activities. Is it safe to allow everyone to videotape at random? No, it\\\'s not safe in many ways.

No one should ever put a video on the internet of a kid without specific permission by the parent and whether you set your page to private it doesn\\\'t matter. You cannot control what someone whom you give permission to access the site, will do.

I have seen an over zealous parent get in the way so bad videotaping and he even turned on a flash, that his kid fell off the stage!! She broke her leg. He went up to the front of the stage and followed her. Other parents were upset and rightfully so. The entire class who had worked so hard all year fell apart(and if you think about it it\\\'s more than a years work, you keep dancing year to year and what you see is a result of all training). I was mortified. I vowed never to get into that predicament if I had my own studio. I once sat behind a parent at a recital years ago and never got to see the person I came to see because all I could do was to look at that camera. It was on the entire show and it was a full house, no empty seats. Plus, you videotape the show, you miss the show! It\\\'s NOT the same. It\\\'s also rude audience behavior. You can\\\'t go and videotape \\\"The Lion King\\\" just because you paid for a ticket. There are also copyright laws and the music is protected and belongs to the composer and choreography belongs to the choreographer or the studio, depending on the arrangement.

I\\\'ve seen parents get into fights, verbal and physical. They do it at sports games, too. Parents behave SO badly at times. They bring a huge board in with coolers to put on top so people won\\\'t sit in those seats. They \\\"save\\\" seats and then someone comes in an hour later or during the 2nd half for the seat and meanwhile a parent who was there on time to see their chld and who paid just as much for the dance education (it is EDUCATION) is upset. You want a good seat - get there on time.

Just because you pay for lessons, etc. doesn\\\'t mean you shouldn\\\'t have to pay for the performance. Tickets pay for the performance, police - you have to pay their cost then pay into a special general retirement fund for cops so you are paying double, extra insurance you have to carry, technical staff, auditorium rental, equipment and backdrop rental (talk about thousands), lighting, etc. You can\'t ask for or get donations if you are not an officially designated non-profit organization!!

So you know ASCAP doesn\\\'t allow the sale of videos for a profit. They also don\\\'t allow parents videotaping which they consider stealing of the music. They are very strict. Teachers/owners don\\\'t agree with a lot but they are obligated to follow their rules and there\\\'s more co.\\\'s than ASCAP now. We have to pay to use the music in class or performance. We\\\'re allowed to have only so many performances.

Your use of the word \\\"gang rape\\\" especially when talking about a field that is primarily female and considering you\\\'re talking about your daughter, is something I find EXTREMELY offensive.

Good thing your daughter doesn\\\'t skate...let\\\'s see...used skates $400 and of course they keep growing out of them. The costumes are easily $1000+ up. Ice time, etc. What about hockey? Even gymnastics.

BE GLAD YOU HAVE A CHILD THAT HAS THESE INTERESTS AND THE ABILITY TO PERSUE THEM. She has a healthy body and mind and the support financially and physically from you...and you\\\'re complaing about $30. One of my students (started with me at age 14 and she\\\'s 29 now) just lost her child. I bet she\\\'d pay $30 in a heartbeat to see her kid over and over again. You are a good dad to support your chlid\\\'s interest. I have seen many over the years who don\\\'t get the opportunity your child has.

However, you should be ashamed of your original post and the term \\\"gang rape\\\" over and over. You owe an apology. As for calling your studio owner\'s business a \'rinky dink operation\'...how insulting and arrogant. My \'rinky dink\' operation is my career and I guess I wasted all that time in college and gaining performance experience as well as spending money yearly on continuing education. Talk about snobbery.

In the meantime, I just heard the auditorium I use is upping their prices yet again for my annual show. Since tuition is for classes and studio costs I guess it means I have to increase my ticket prices a bit so I don\\\'t pull the money out of my own family\\\'s survival.

No, it\\\'s not going to a new car. My 1995 Chevy with no a/c and a door handle that is broken on the driver\\\'s side (not fun in the winter) but leaves me with no car payment to make because I can\\\'t afford one, will have to keep getting us where we have to go.

You really should think this through and know the whole picture of things before spouting off and this is directed at you and anyone else who feels the same. Otherwise you appear ignorant. Got a gripe? Make a conference appt. and talk about with your studio owner.

There are always options and you have the option to have her stop dancing. By the way, $30 is cheap. Most cost around $40ish and that quote comes right from the video company. What do I get? A copy for the studio. As for pictures, I didn\\\'t offer them and parents asked for them so I made it available. Buying is always an option. What do I get for offering it? Surely not a trip to Hawaii!! I get a copy of every photo taken for the studio. If there is a company out there who pays a percentage to the studio owner, trust me the owner deserves it and it\\\'s very small. The owner has to be there, pay for utilities, often pose the kids, deal with parents and any issues that may come up.

When your child watches the tape she/he\\\'ll watch the entire show and feel a part of something special, which it is, vs. only watching their own dance. Dancers like to see the entire dance so they can see what it looks like, so you know. The close-ups get in the way. I have my videographer do a pan but otherwise have the entire dance filmed so entrances and exits, formations, etc. aren\\\'t missed.

You are giving your child a wonderful gift, the gift of dance whose lessons will enhance and benefit her life forever.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

Beth Wheeler — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 05:03:23 -0000

There are responders in this thread who chose to list their name and to try to educate. Yup, I was and still am one of \'em. To this we got a \"thanks for clicking on the site and making me more money\".

I still stand in the place that I admire that you guys are trying to educate and support new dads. I think this is wonderful. I would very much like to see you do it without attacking those who support your kids on a daily basis (and could very well have begun doing the same for you or your peers when you were still in diapers).

I agree that some responders got caught up in the heat of the original post - it was extremely insulting - and replied in like fashion. Guys you truly reap what you sow.

The point is, Gregory claims his position is simply that he felt the quality of the product was poor in contrast to the expense. However, in truth he loaded that by packing a whole lot of extranious insults directed at our industry. So, yup, y\'all got the response you planted.

And, no, of course you wouldn\'t hear any of the studio owners who replied speak to a child in this manner - but I know many of the ladies who responded and, trust me, they\'d defend your kids with the same passion they\'re defending themselves.

And, I must say, reading through more of your site, that the rough language and manner you seem now so offended by is nothing new - you guys lay it out all over the place.

So, to offer you a bit of the education you have asked for I would suggest that if you don\'t like being addressed in this manner, you don\'t do it to others.

You know the drill, treat others as you wish to be treated.

Most respectfully,
Beth Wheeler
adancersdream.net

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

foodad — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:54:48 -0000

I am surpised by the attitude of most of the comments here. Here is an opportunity to educate a disgruntled customer (and the his hundreds of thousands of loyal, daily noodad readers), but instead you lambaste him like a bunch of anonymous, know-it-all, forumites.

For shame! You are only casting your fellow dance recial businesswomyn, not to mention the American small business owner, into a dark light! We are the pathetic ones? What happened to \"the customer is always right?\"

Aside from Redhawk, who is a friend of the site, who of you has attempted to make Noodad a believer without cursing him out and feeling sorry for his children.

Dancer, please!

Noodad is like \"best dad on server\". This is not some dead-beat, child support dodging, single father spending all of his 10 kids child support money on the horses. He is influential. He pays both the bills and attention to his kids. This is the kind of guy you want to convert to your side, not thrust deeper into the anus-of-hatred.

If Noodad is feeling like this, chances are that many other noodads are feeling the same way. They aren\'t usually shy about telling us when we are off base.

Looks like customer service is truly dead in America, or at least in the kiddie ballet industry.

Re: noodad » The Scam Called Kid Recital Videos

IJ — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:29:08 -0000

Clearly, the dance teacher/studio owner community is fired up about this post. Kudos to you for engaging in the kind of democratic free exchange of ideas that the internet enables... The point of a comment function on a web site exists precisely for this reason...so people of differing viewpoints can \"comment\" with alternative points of view. Unfortunately most of the above commenters seem to view tearing Noodad a new one as a cathartic opportunity (...perhaps a chance to vent years of frustration with misinformed parents) and are viewing the ability to share their opinion as a \"Lambaste\" function. Any mature adult, especially an educator of children, should recognize that people are most effectively convinced by rational arguments and clear presentation of points. Some of the points made above are thoughtful and logical...most are not. As a dad, I value the service that Noodad.com provides precisely because moms and females feel empowered to weigh in on issues presented here. I find it useful. I learn a lot. In this instance, I am, as a whole, disappointed in the members of the dance teacher/studio owner community that have chosen to reply to this post for being so decisive and unnecessarily combative. Perhaps the people you all seek to enlighten (and dads in particular who you should know with all of your years of experience might recoil and become closed off to hearing your POV from this kind of assault) might have been better served if the post on your site (dance.net) had been entitled \"Please help me educate this misinformed dad\" rather than \"Please help me tell this clueless guy off\"...missed opportunity dance teacher/studio owners. You focused your energy to crap on one dad when you could have been helping to educate many.