DISQUS

jiff · 3 years ago

My nephew cosleeps with his parents and grandparetns.... he is 3 years old and has \"maybe\" sleep 2-3 nights by himself. I have seen this turn into a disaster first hand so I can vouch about this story!

rupertz · 3 years ago

I actually disagree with this pretty strongly. Neither of our kids co-slept with us but I have a few friends who I truly respect who did co-sleep.

I\'m pretty sure all research indicates that the rolling over your baby while they are asleep thing is a complete myth. If anything, co-sleeping advocates would say it is safer than leaving a baby in a crib.

Also, the few times we did it when one of our babies was sick were actually wonderful nights for the family, there is truly nothing like sleeping together with a baby.

I think this falls into the each-to-his-own category.

Dr. Sears has a great piece on co-sleeping here, http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071000.asp

foodad · 3 years ago

I\'m not sure what kind of ship you\'re running over there Captain, but \"pretty sure\" is not good enough for my crew when it comes to \"potentially smashing your kid.\"

How could sleeping in a bed with 1 or 2 grown adults be safer than being in a crib without blankets and large, possibly mobile objects? I fail to see your logic or reasoning here and would argue that you are just being contradictory for the sake of doing so.

This article CLEARLY is not about the magical, Disney-(or-Neverland-)esque moment your family shared when your kid was sick. This is a warning about kids sleeping in bed with the parents ALL THE TIME.

This Dr. Sears article is pure RUBBISH written by some parents who are weak with discipline. They\'re probably the same ones who bribe their kids with a candy bar at the store when they\'re crying. Who is running the household? The parents or the kids?

Look at this dog vomit from the article:
\"As I watched the sleeping pair, I was intrigued by the harmony in their breathing. When Martha took a deep breath, baby took a deep breath. When I draped our tiny babies skin-to-skin over my chest, (a touch I dubbed \"the warm fuzzy\") , I noticed their breathing would synchronize with the rise and fall of my chest. \"

There is a name for this. It is co-dependency. It is not healthy. The parents are enabling the children and in this case, the parents are actually convinced that this is good for the family. They\'ve even come up with cute little crunchy stories to make it seem all warm and fuzzy. RUBBISH!!! HOGWASH!!!! HU SHUO!!!

rupertz · 3 years ago

Well, one person\'s co-dependency is another person love which is why, like with most things parenting I think its best not to judge. And the dog vomit you cite could actually be the reason by co-sleeping deaths are far less common than crib related deaths.

And that is written by Dr. Sears himself, an incredibly respected pediatrician who has eight children of his own, who he has brought up with his wife, also Dr. Sears.

Worldwide statistics indicate that co-sleeping is far safer than the crib industry would like you to believe, http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFac...

Again, we haven\'t done co-sleeping with our kids but I\'m not one to judge.

noodad · 3 years ago

But so do a lot of things you shouldn\'t do. I don\'t view this subject as something that is even remotely 50/50. There is no good reason to consistently do this except that you were weak, gave in, and you can\'t get out of it.

harry · 3 years ago

Thanks to the noo and the foo for laying it out as it should be. I can understand the desperate fleeting moment of considering such a dangerous act such as cosleeping, but I cannot for the life of me actually comprehend doing it. Beyond the obvious and previously stated risk of the kid being squished to a hideous shade of blue, let\'s not forget the mobile kid has the ability, desire and technique to try to venture out of the bed on his/her own. Many kids have been injured from falls out of their bed during the daytime with a wide awake parent in the room. Now let\'s imagine that same awake adventurous kid laying betweeen two comatose parents around 2am. Can anyone truly guarantee that kid isn\'t going to try to escape the bed? Can anyone truly guarantee that they are definitively going to wake? And I don\'t care what statistics say, I\'m not ever taking the chance with my kid becoming a statistic.

mattdm · 3 years ago

If this is your line of reasoning, really, you shouldn\'t have kids at all.

imsowitty · 3 years ago

I\'m with Noo and Foo. My Cousin is 9 years old and will not sleep unless he\'s in his moms bed. Sure that\'s an extreme but it\'s not something I want to risk. Don\'t get me wrong I would love to sleep with my baby boy between us, but I\'m a big guy (6\'1 190lbs) Very heavy sleeper and I roll around alot, Hell I\'ve even rolled over my DW. If she can\'t wake me up hows a baby 1/40th my size going to? Bad dreams? Damn right I\'ll be there, In his room. Not ours, My boy isn\'t gonna be a statistic.

foodad · 3 years ago

Of course there are more SIDS deaths associated with cribs. More kids sleep in cribs than co sleep.

noodad · 3 years ago

Mattdm, what comment are you referring to? or are you commenting on the article?

mattdm · 3 years ago

I had written a long reply, but your CMS wiped it out when I was trying to add a link. For now, I\'ll just answer \"the article\". More tomorrow.

mattdm · 3 years ago

If you believe you can have a kid and have everything be the same as before with no work and no sacrifice, well, obviously you\'re wrong. You have to adjust your previous life in ways which provide the best for your new child.

There are basically three things the article is concerned about -- danger to the baby, impediments to sex, and the fear that it\'s impossible to stop.

The first, the danger, is basically untrue. You\'re not going to squoosh the baby any more than you\'re going to roll out of the bed onto the floor in the middle of the night. There\'s really only a danger here if you\'re drinking or on some other substance. And of course you need a firm bed and no heavy blankets.

The second is of course a concern to all men, but realistically, if your sex life doesn\'t take a hit after you have kids (particularly in the first three months), you are an aberration. (A very lucky aberration, but still.) And cosleeping just means you have to find some other time and place for the \"bedtime magic\" -- and if you can\'t do that, you\'re not trying very hard.

And finally, the \"you\'ll never be able to stop\" idea. This is probably true for some people, but it wasn\'t for us. We coslept for about a year, until our daughter started getting more mobile. At that point, we transitioned her to her own crib in her own room, a process which took about a week (with two hard nights right at first). And that was with no \"crying it out\".

That\'s the rebuttal to the \"warnings\" of the article. On the other side, there are significant benefits. Unlike, say, reptiles, newborn human babies are meant to be under the care of parents. Sleeping next to mom and dad helps regulate the baby\'s sleep and breathing. And obviously it makes breastfeeding easier for mom (don\'t discount the benefits of \"making things easier for mom\" on helping your relationship!). But beyond that, some studies have shown that babies who cosleep grow into happier and better adjusted and better disciplined children and adults. And, as a new parent, it\'s really nice to be able to glance over in the middle of the night and see that your little one is all right.

mattdm · 3 years ago

It\'s hard to do good scientific studies on SIDS because, as scary as it is, it\'s really pretty rare, especially now that we know to put babies to sleep on their backs and to cut out second-hand smoke. But take a look at the graph at the end of the [URL=http://www.babyreference.com/Cosleeping&SIDSFactSheet.htm;]link rupertz gave[/URL] -- that\'s based on percentages and makes some interesting general conclusions. But you can go look this up yourself. When you factor out suffocations due to drunkeness and drugs -- which often happen on a couch or somewhere, not while cosleeping at night -- there\'s no evidence at all of a risk here and may be some indication that it\'s actually safer because you\'re more aware of the baby\'s sleep.

Then there\'s the cry of \"co-dependency\". There\'s nothing \"co\" about it -- tiny babies are COMPLETELY dependent on their parents. That\'s the way we are. (See earier comment about humans vs reptiles.) And to re-emphasize what rupertz says, Dr. Sears isn\'t some starry-eyed hippy parent with no actual knowledge. He\'s a doctor, and knows that little babies need to be taken care of.

Then there\'s the assertation by both foodad and noodad that cosleeping is \"weak\" and shows poor discipline. I suppose this is true if your ideal of fatherhood is the 1950s or Victorian-era father, with the whole \"I\'m the [I]breadwinner[/I]; taking care of the kids is women\'s work, call me when they\'re big enough to play baseball or if they need hitting with a belt\" thing. But real discipline is about more than being a hard-ass just for the sake of being The Discipline Guy. (If you want that, get a job as a drill instructor or a high-school vice principal.)

I highly encourage you both to read Dr. Sear\'s [URL=http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060100.asp]suggestions on discipline[/URL], particularly the first two links there.

rupertz · 3 years ago

Thank you mattdm for bringing some semblance of reason to this discussion. And your link to Dr. Sear\'s is great. I\'ve found that site and his books to be an invaluable resource.

I have nothing but respect for people who chose to co-sleep. Some parenting things are truly black and white, like, say putting a baby in a car with no car seat. Co-sleeping simply isn\'t one of those issues.

Noodad · 3 years ago

Mattdm, glad co-sleeping worked out for you. But what works for some does not work for others. For every Dr. Sears there will be someone who will come up with a study or research that says co-sleeping is bad.

The bottom line of being a noodad is you and your wife will be forced with hard decisions like these. If you play the safe choice, you do not co-sleep.

As for sacrifice, co-sleeping, IMHO, should not be one of them. I still stand by my opinion, that for the majority of co-sleeping families, it was started by an initial weakness by the parents.

davedad · 3 years ago

For anybody considering co-sleeping, I\'d recommend the [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007R4J4Y/qid%3D1150340578/104-4205993-0179924]Snuggle Nest[/URL], a \"bed within a bed\" for baby.

redhawk · 3 years ago

I have not followed the issue, but Dr. Sears is the only authority I\'ve ever heard mentioned as an advocate for co-sleeping. Is he credible? (Having 8 kids does not make him so. Plenty of crappy parents have had 8 kids.) What is his background?

wingnut · 3 years ago

My wife and I let our dog(Min Pin) sleep with us and there is already issues. There is no way I\'m letting our son even start. She says safety and I say the bed is full. Even as a child they need to learn individuality and independence. We have a friend who let her son sleep with her until he was eight and it only stopped when she got married. He is thirteen now and is the biggest momma\'s boy I have ever met.
So go ahead and deicide for yourselves but if you let your son sleep with you don\'t be surprised if he comes home beat up by the local kids every now and then. :cry

rupertz · 3 years ago

\"Dr. Sears, or Dr. Bill as his \"little patients\" call him, is the father of eight children as well as the author of over 30 books on childcare. Dr. Bill is an Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of California, Irvine, School of Medicine. Dr. Bill received his pediatric training at Harvard Medical School\'s Children\'s Hospital in Boston and The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto -- the largest children’s hospital in the world, where he served as associate ward chief of the newborn nursery and associate professor of pediatrics. Dr. Sears is a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) and a fellow of the Royal College of Pediatricians (RCP). Dr. Bill is also a medical and parenting consultant for BabyTalk and Parenting magazines and the pediatrician on the website Parenting.com.\"

And his books are great reading!

foodad · 3 years ago

One thing I have learn through harsh real experiences is that doctors, like anyone else can be wrong.

My wife and I take responsibility for our decisions. Yes, we consult the experts, but if we have learned the hard way that they are not always right.

You can cite his credentials all you want. For every Dr. Sears I would bet there is another 2 to 3 experts that disagree with him.

:grin

QuinnFazigu · 3 years ago

Our second daughter has co-slept with us since the night she was born -- at home. She\'s the most mellow baby one could hope for, and it\'s worked out awesome.

Our first daughter has co-slept with us since she was out of the hospital with her mama. Now, at three, she goes to bed on her own (after stories from me and \"huggies and rubbies\" from mom), and we scoop her up into our communal bed when we go to sleep.

It\'s been awesome so far, and we\'re happy to provide that confidence (that someone is always there for them) to our kids in their formative years.

As for the sex life, that\'s necessarily hampered by children coming into our lives, but we boink like maniac animals in the living room while the kids sleep. What\'s the difference [i]where[/i] you do it?

Sunshine · 3 years ago

\"if you want to have the opportunity to have relations with your wife, don\'t start co-sleeping. It can\'t get any easier than that.\"

Really?

Well, your sex life must be pretty sad confined to the bed.

We have sex ALL OVER THE HOUSE with my 2 year old fast asleep in our bedroom.

HEHE.

Latia · 3 years ago

Folks, what ever happened to having the baby sleep in a co-sleeper bassinet? It hooks up to the side of the bed and can be used as a playpen when the child gets too large for a bassinet. This makes it safe for the child to share a room with the parents without the risk of someone rolling over on the baby. The only reason why co-sleeping deaths aren\'t as highly publisized as SIDS deaths is because they are usually accidental. No one (not even a heartless news agency) will report on their eleven o\'clock news that some parent placed their child in their bed of thick blankets in between their large bodies only to roll over the child while sleeping and suffocate the child. Yes, SIDS is terrible-but it happens due to a lack of oxygen (example: blankets and too thick heavy clothing in the crib and not placing the baby to sleep on his/her back causes the child to suffocate) and that is the same reason why co-sleeping is dangerous. Thanks Noodad and Foodad for sticking to your guns on this subject. I get the feeling that the logic of \"if my child is going to suffocate, I\'d rather them do it laying next to me\" comes into play with this whole co-sleeping issue.
My DH and I tried co-sleeping with our child and it only resulted in me waking every two minutes to make sure that there was nothing blocking the airway of my baby. DH slept, dd slept, but I did not.
If you are going to co-sleep, please please please for the safety of your child get this little doodad called a \"SnuggleNest\". If you must co-sleep, do it safely, folks.

baby's mama · 2 years ago

[QUOTE]Of course there are more SIDS deaths associated with cribs. More kids sleep in cribs than co sleep.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the statistics are based on data from cultures where the majority of families co-sleep. Of course, since we are talking about a whole other culture, there may be other reasons why there are decreased incidences of SIDs besides co-sleeping. Regardless, it\'s something to think about.

Noodad · 2 years ago

So, this article got linked here http://babytalkbio.com/boards/index.php?topic=2...

In it, I have been called bitter! A Moron! An ass! Just so that we are clear, I am not a bitter man because never in a million years would I or my wife (it WAS a joint decision) ever co-sleep. So how can I be bitter? I suffered none of the problems I described in my \"rant\". I was merely offering a warning to you predads and noodads who haven\'t made a decision yet!

P.S. All the comments were from women. This is a dad site people!

foodad · 2 years ago

While I cannot argue against any of the points in the above comment :grin ;) :grin ;) I believe that the above linked site may be associated to an underground group called WaWA which is an organization dedicated to rearing and raising the future wimps and wusses of America.

foodad
-another bitter, moronic (_._)

latiamh · 2 years ago

One word: WHUT?

Been There · 2 years ago

I co-slept with my son until he was about 5 months.. I tried to leave him in the crib at first (like 2 nights) but even with a motion sensor monitor I was still in there to check on him every 5 minutes.. I was a zombie.. It wasn\'t worth it. I could actually get some *sleep* with my hand on his chest/stomach, if he coughed or sniffed funny I woke in an instant. The quality of the sleep I got with him right there was 50x better than when he was away. I woke the second he moved or anytime I needed to move. I never even once rolled over (not on top of him, I mean rolled over at all) while asleep with him. At all times even when asleep I knew he was there. When he started to be more mobile that was when he started sleeping in the crib.. We had no problems at all with the transfer.. No crying fits or sleepless nights. He slept with me one night and he slept in the crib the next, and from then on.. He is almost 6 years old now and has never had trouble sleeping on his own. There is a definite bonding quality to sleeping so close to your child, it might not be for everyone but I don\'t think it should be outright discouraged.. Just my experience though...

J.Albin · 2 years ago

I stopped reading your pathetic, cynical replies, so I apologize if you\'ve found your soul, or \'pair\" as you so eloquently put it. You\'re an ass. Usually, I wouldn\'t stoop to insults but your vulgar responses deserve a vulgar reply. You have no evidence but your own shallow, self-involved meanderings on the subject. First of all, a good marriage could never be ruined by doing what\'s best for the child. Second, you know the Sears kids are all doctors and professionals - very well-adjusted. I\'m guessing from the overbearing, demanding, and intolerant way you speak there is a lot of therapy in your kid\'s future.

RPM · 1 year ago

I was originally mad about not being able to sleep in my own bed between the tit sucking and snoring and tossing and turning, but after 3 and a half years, I\'ve moved out and moved on. More sex leads to more kids, so I\'ll stick to porn. All works out in the end, probably. As long as I can spend all my time working to pay for the kid I didn\'t want and the wife who doesn\'t care about me any more, I know I\'ll be able to have a comfy sofa so I can have barely enough energy to keep it all going.

Being a parent sucks. Then again, so does being married; having a kid makes it suck differently, not worse.